White people designated themselves as superior , too by the way. And proceeded to build a hierarchy all over the Earth in which white people are economically, politically , socially, institutionally and structurally in superior and advantageous positions, in general, relative to darker peoples. See _The World and Africa_ by W.E.B. Dubois. So, when I speak of white supremacy, I'm just calling a spade a spade, so to speak.
White
= European. The Europeans invented the color categorization of peoples ,
and designated themselves as white. So , white supremacy is European
supremacist. The Europeans also named themselves "Europeans".
In European geography, for some reason the relatively small land mass is designated a whole continent , when by the objective standards for dividing up continents, it should just be Northeast Asia. This is a trace of white supremacy in geography.
White people designated themselves as superior , too by the way. And proceeded to build a hierarchy all over the Earth in which white people are economically, politically , socially, institutionally and structurally in superior and advantageous positions, in general, relative to darker peoples. See _The World and Africa_ by W.E.B. Dubois. So, when I speak of white supremacy, I'm just calling a spade a spade, so to speak.
In European geography, for some reason the relatively small land mass is designated a whole continent , when by the objective standards for dividing up continents, it should just be Northeast Asia. This is a trace of white supremacy in geography.
White people designated themselves as superior , too by the way. And proceeded to build a hierarchy all over the Earth in which white people are economically, politically , socially, institutionally and structurally in superior and advantageous positions, in general, relative to darker peoples. See _The World and Africa_ by W.E.B. Dubois. So, when I speak of white supremacy, I'm just calling a spade a spade, so to speak.
- Martin Sayles, Tom Michalak, Andrew Mayton and 5 others like this.
David Faunt Le Roy This isn't really helpful, not to mention not being truthful. Other cultures, for example Indian caste society, were partially based upon skin color. Arabs also enslaved millions of East Africans (and hundreds of thousands of Southern Europeans). Why don't you accuse Arabs of the same things?
Europe is bigger than Australia and about the same size as South America. You are aware it extends all the way to the Ural mountains? That it's a peninsula?
Every predatory culture has always designated itself superior, Charles. China, with the Mandate of Heaven, center of the world, all other kingdoms and people's owing various degrees of fealty. The Mongols, destined to rule, murdering and enslaving every one in their path. The Arab Caliphate, with it's mission to bring Islam to the benighted people's of the world. The Aachaemenid Persian Empire. Could give dozens more examples.
Anam Bibi Indian caste society was NOTorganized upon skin color - Brahmins in South India are dark skinned David Faunt Le Roy Even gaint intellectuals like Marx and Hegel saw the Judeo-Christian civilization of Europe to be superior than the East. There is Orientalism even in Marx's writings - he completely belittled Hinduism. Roy - dont confuse cultural and ideological superiority complex with racial one. The Mughals in India (Emperor Akbar) embraced local culture and traditions in India and were never "racist" in a European sense. European Racial Science was invented to justify colonization.
Charles Brown It is entirely truthful. what are you talking about ? "The discovery of gold and silver in America, the extirpation, enslavement and entombment in mines of the aboriginal population, the beginning of the conquest and looting of the East Indies, the turning of Africa into a warren for the commercial hunting of black-skins, signalised the rosy dawn of the era of capitalist production. These idyllic proceedings are the chief momenta of primitive accumulation. On their heels treads the commercial war of the European nations, with the globe for a theatre. It begins with the revolt of the Netherlands from Spain, assumes giant dimensions in England’s Anti-Jacobin War, and is still going on in the opium wars against China, &c. " https://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1867-c1/ch31.htm
- Anam Bibi As far as Islam is concerned - Islam ideologically never was racist. In the Quran - a prophet by the name of Bilal was in fact black and he is given equal status as other prophets.
- Charles Brown http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Johann_Friedrich_Blumenbach
en.wikipedia.org
Johann Friedrich Blumenbach (11 May 1752 – 22 January 1840) was a German physici... See More - Charles Brown http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arthur_de_Gobineau Joseph Arthur Comte de Gobineau (14 July 1816 – 13 October 1882) was a French aristocrat, novelist and man of letters who became famous for developing the theory of the Aryan master race in his book An Essay on the Inequality of the Human Races[1] (1853–1855). De Gobineau is credited (sic) as being the father of modern racial demography, and his works are today considered very early examples of "scientific" racism.
en.wikipedia.org
Joseph Arthur Comte de Gobineau (14 July 1816 – 13 October 1882) was a French ar... See More - Charles Brown http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ashley_Montagu
en.wikipedia.org
Montague Francis Ashley-Montagu (June 28, 1905 – November 26, 1999) was a Britis... See More - Charles Brown http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Franz_Boas
en.wikipedia.org
Franz Uri Boas (/ˈfrɑːnz ˈboʊ.æz/; German: [ˈboːas]; July 9, 1858 – December 21,... See More - Charles Brown http://www.goodreads.com/.../611699.The_World_and_Africa
www.goodreads.com
An Inquiry into the Part which Africa Has Played in World History. A new edition of this classic work with essays, written after 1955, on... - David Faunt Le Roy I've just discussed this with someone I respect and have been made to see that I was mistaken on this question.
I'll have to study it. Some books were recommended to me and I plan to order them. - David Faunt Le Roy But I don't find the designation of Europe as a continent objectionable.
I never disputed Charles' third paragraph. I pointed out that white Europeans are hardly the first people to attempt to erect a hierarchy 'in which (blank) people are economically, politically, socially, institutionally and structurally in superior and advantageous positions". - David Faunt Le Roy I agree that racism and racial ideology were developed to justify and support European colonialism, imperialism, genocide.
But at bottom, how is seizing on race as a justification for injustice any different than seizing on religion or culture or some other qualification by which the exploiting group differentiates itself from the exploited group? - Charles Brown I agree white people are not the first to erect a hierarchy. That first occurred with the origin of the state in Mesopotamia about 6 or 7,000 years ago; along with the origin of the male supermacist family and private property. Subsequent anthropology and archaeology have demonstrated Engels to be essentially correct on those critical contradictions and zig zags of human long term history. So, I agree with you. Skin color as a social and economic marker only arose in the last 500 years with capitalist colonialism and slavery. Before that there were no categories white and dark, corresponding to what we know . There was no skin color mis-science of the modern sort in past ages. In that regard , here's something interesting on the author of Marx's favorite quote in a parlor game, Terrance "Nothing human is alien to me".
- Charles Brown He was dark skinned and a slave , but not a slave in capitalism: Publius Terentius Afer (/təˈrɛnʃiəs, -ʃəs/; 195/185–159 BC), better known in English as Terence (/ˈtɛrəns/), was a playwright of the Roman Republic, of North African descent. His comedies were performed for the first time around 170–160 BC. Terentius Lucanus, a Roman senator, brought Terence to Rome as a slave, educated him and later on, impressed by his abilities, freed him. Terence apparently died young, probably in Greece or on his way back to Rome. All of the six plays Terence wrote have survived.
One famous quotation by Terence reads: "Homo sum, humani nihil a me alienum puto", or "I am a human being, I consider nothing that is human alien to me." This appeared in his play Heauton Timorumenos. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terence
en.wikipedia.org
Publius Terentius Afer (/təˈrɛnʃiəs, -ʃəs/; 195/185–159 BC), better known in Eng... See More - David Faunt Le Roy I guess what I mean is, if the people living in Africa had been white in 1500, Europeans would have just come up with some other justification for enslaving them.
- Charles Brown if the people living in Africa had been white in 1500, Europeans would have just come up with some other justification for enslaving them....and therefore.....
- Charles Brown Your favorite Maxim Nihil humani a me alienum puto [Nothing human is alien to me] http://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1865/04/01.htm
www.marxists.org
First Published: in the original English in the International Review of Social History, 1956.Transcribed: by Andy Blunden. - David Faunt Le Roy What I object to going down this road is the idea that white workers are inherently racism (or are racist without being aware of it) and ultimately benefit from imperialism. They aren't inherently racist, and they only relatively benefit from imperialism. The extra crumbs from the capitalist table and the racism used by the ruling class to divide the proletariat is ultimately to the detriment of white workers, who will be better off in direct proportion to development of their class consciousness and the forging of the proletariat into a class for itself which presents a united front against the capitalist oppressors. It isn't just non - white workers who are affected by racist divisions among the proletariat. To the extent that the divide and rule tactics of the ruling class are successful, all workers are worse off.
- David Faunt Le Roy As a white worker, I might make twice as much as a black worker (I actually make minimum wage, $7.25). But if I unite with all workers, we can proceed to the revolutionary overthrow of capitalism and the construction of socialism. So who really benefits from racism, and who has an interest in upholding it? Clearly not white workers or any other workers, but the ruling class.
- David Faunt Le Roy The average white worker makes %22 in personal income more than the average black worker. You really have to question the people who claim that white workers benefit from imperialism based on this. As for me, I'll take a united working class movement over the %22 percent. The ruling class wants white workers to feel that that extra income, along with other privileges, are a sound basis for supporting, tacitly accepting or ignoring institutionalized racism. Even if the difference was %1000, even then white workers would not ultimately benefit more than if they joined with black workers in a struggle against capitalism.
Timothy Charles Smith white=European is a bit misguided. im not throwing myself in this extended chat but David Faunt Le Roy I dig your view- Charles Brown What do you mean by "inherently racist" , David Faunt Le Roy ? Yes, there many aspects to white supremacy that are unconscious.
- Charles Brown http://www.barnesandnoble.com/.../racism.../1001544305...
www.barnesandnoble.com
Available in: Paperback. FREE SHIPPING on orders of $25 or more. Racism: The Nation's Most Dangerous Pollutant by Gus Hall. - Anam Bibi would like to comment on the following : "David Faunt Le Roy: I guess what I mean is, if the people living in Africa had been white in 1500, Europeans would have just come up with some other justification for enslaving them." -- When the British took over Ireland - this is exactly what they did. The Irish were also White so it was harder to justify its control by the simply racial science white vs. black idea. Nevertheless - the Irish were portrayed as the "White negro and degenerate" - look up: Imperial Leather: Race, Gender, and Sexuality in the Colonial Contest by Anna Mcclintock.
- Charles Brown This “boundless thirst for surplus labour” expresses itself in the attempt, first, to extend the working day. The surplus value produced through the extension of the working day is called absolute surplus value: “The creation of a normal working day is therefore, the product of a protracted civil war, more or less dissembled, between the capitalist class and the working class.” (p. 327) It is here that Marx links the battle for a normal working day to the battle against outright slavery: “in the United States of North America, every independent movement of the workers was paralysed so long as slavery disfigured a part of the Republic. Labour cannot emancipate itself in the white skin when in the black it is branded.” (p. 329) _Capital _ /////// Black and White , unite and fight, the bourgeoisie. Workers of all countries and races, unite. You have only your chains to lose.
- David Faunt Le Roy There are some Black radicals who support what someone described to me as 'narrow nationalism', a major tenet of which is the idea that all white people, including the white working class, are racist by nature. Even white anti-racists, white socialists, etc., are unconsciously racist, racist without being aware of it. And these white workers are all supporters, maybe consciously, maybe unconsciously, of white supremacy, institutionalized racism, imperialism and so on, and they benefit *absolutely* from these phenomenon, not relatively. They are fully invested in imperialism and racism, basically. This based on a narrow interpretation of the white skin privilege theory.
- Charles Brown There are some Black radicals who support what someone described to me as 'narrow nationalism'//////// Who ?
- Charles Brown Claude Lightfoot
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Lightfoot in 1955
Claude M. Lightfoot (1910–1991) was an African-American activist, politician, and author. From 1957 until his death in 1991 Lightfoot was an officer of the Communist Party of the USA, seeking the advancement of socialist and Marxist-Leninist ideals. The author of many books and articles about racism and communism, Lightfoot also traveled and lectured throughout the world.
Having moved from his birthplace in Arkansas to Chicago's South Side in 1917, Lightfoot experienced the Chicago Race Riots of 1919, prompting him to join the struggles of Black workers in the 1920s. After participating briefly in Marcus Garvey's movement, which he decided was unworkable, Lightfoot became a member of the Democratic Party. Disillusionment during the Great Depression led him to join the Communist Party in 1931. In 1932 he ran for the Illinois State Legislature on the Communist ticket, receiving 33,000 votes. In 1935 Lightfoot was a delegate to the Seventh (and last) World Congress of the Communist International in the Soviet Union. After enlisting in 1941 and serving three and a half years in World War II, he rose to the top leadership of the Illinois Communist Party, succeeding Gilbert Green as chairman in 1957 when the latter was arrested.
On June 26, 1954, during the McCarthy era, Lightfoot was arrested based on the Smith Act of 1946 and put on trial. While previous Smith Act indictments had been of individuals accused directly of attempting to overthrow the US government by force or violence, Lightfoot was indicted merely for being a member of the Communist Party, which, in turn, was alleged to be attempting to overthrow the government. His conviction was appealed all the way to the U.S. Supreme Court, which acquitted Lightfoot in 1964.
Lightfoot's autobiography, which was also his doctoral thesis at the University of Illinois, is: From Chicago's Ghetto to World Politics: The Life and Struggles of Claude M. Lightfoot. It was first published as Black America and the World Revolution (New York: New Outlook Publishers, 1970). A 1980 augmented edition was titled Chicago Slums to World Politics.
In the 1970s Lightfoot wrote newspaper columns for the Chicago Courier. In 1973 he received an honorary doctorate from the University of Rostock in East Germany for his book Racism and Human Survival: Lessons of Nazi Germany for Today's World. He was also honored by the W.E.B. DuBois Clubs of America and the Bulgarian and Soviet Communist parties.
Lightfoot married Geraldyne Gray in 1938. She was a CPUSA organizer who died of cancer in 1962; they adopted a disabled son, Earl, around 1955. Lightfoot married a woman named Joyce in 1965 and adopted a daughter named Tanya. He donated his papers to the Chicago Historical Museum in 1986.
Publications
An American looks at Russia: Can we live together in peace? (New York: New Century Publishers, 1951), 23 pp.
"Not guilty!" The Case of Claude Lightfoot, by Claude M. Lightfoot (New York: New Century Publishers, 1955), 15pp. (Based on a speech delivered Mar. 26, 1955 in Los Angeles, Calif.)
The Struggle to End the Cold War at Home (New York: New Century Publishers, 1956). (Reprinted from Political Affairs, September, 1955)
The Challenge of the '56 elections (New York: New Century Publishers, 1956), 24 pp. (Report to the National Committee of the Communist Party)
The Negro Question in the U.S.A. (New York: New Century Publishers, 1960). (Address to the 17th National Convention of the Communist Party, USA)
Turning Point in Freedom Road: The fight to end Jim Crow now (New York: New Century Publishers, 1962), 46 pp.
"Building a Negro and White alliance for progress," in: Negro liberation: A Goal for all Americans, by Henry Winston Winston, Gus Hall, Claude M Lightfoot and William L Patterson (New York: New Currents Publishers, 1964).
"The Path to Negro Freedom," World Marxist Review, VIII, no. 10 (October 1965), pp. 20–29.
Black power and liberation: A communist view (New York: New Outlook Publishers, 1967), 46 pp.
Ghetto rebellion to black liberation (New York: International Publishers, 1968), 192 pp.
O poder negro em revolta (Río de Janeiro: Paz e Terra, 1969). (Portuguese translation of Ghetto Rebellion to black liberation)
"Black liberation in a socialist, Asian and African perspective," in: Some aspects of the Black liberation struggle: Two lectures, by William Patterson and Claude Lightfoot (Black Liberation Commission, Communist Party, United States of America, 1969). (lecture delivered at Fisk University on October 15, 1969, at a Moratorium Day Rally to End the War in Vietnam)
The Civil War and black liberation today (New York: New Outlook Publishers, 1969), 45 p.
Racism and human survival: Lessons of Nazi Germany for today's world (New York, International Publishers, 1972), 287 pp. illus.
Vosstanija v getto za osvobozzdenie negrov (Moscow: Izd. Progress, 1972).
The Effect of education on racism: The two German states and the USA (New York, New Outlook, 1973).
Der Kampf für die Befreiung der Afroamerikaner (Berlin: Dietz, 1973), 216 pp. (translation of Ghetto rebellion to black liberation)
Human rights U.S. style: From colonial times through the New Deal (New York: International Publishers, 1977), 229 pages.
Salute to Black history honoring Dr. Claude Lightfoot (Salsedo Press, Chicago: 1979), pamphlet.
Chicago Slums to world politics: Autobiography of Claude M. Lightfoot (New York: New Outlook, 1980), 226 pp, illus. (with Timothy V Johnson)
"A New Outlook on Life," in: Political Affairs 71:2(February 1992), 18-25. - Charles Brown http://www.blackhistorymonth.org.uk/claudia-jones/4566344886 black-history-month-facebook1 (5)
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Claudia Jones 'the mother of the Notting Hill Carnival'.
Claudia Jones was born in Port-of-Spain, Trinidad, in 1915, when Trinidad was still a British colony. When she was eight, she moved with her parents and three sisters to Harlem, New York. Living in impoverished conditions, Claudia caught tuberculosis and had to drop out of school in 1932. For the rest of her life she suffered from damaged lungs and heart disease.
Jones stayed in New York from 1923 to 1955. In 1936, she became an active member of the American Communist Party. At the time, Black issues were still neglected in mainstream politics. The Communist Party, with its ethos of social equality, offered a voice for those fighting for Black civil rights.
Claudia Jones was a talented journalist and by the late 1940s she had become the editor of 'Negro Affairs' for the party's paper, The Daily Worker. An elected member of the National Committee of the Communist Party, she also organised and spoke at events. In 1948, she was arrested for her political activities and sentenced to the first of four spells in prison. Finally, following a year in the Alderson Federal Reformatory for Women, Jones was deported. She was refused entry to Trinidad and, in 1955, was granted asylum in England.
In the early 1960s, despite failing health, Jones helped organise campaigns against the 1962 Immigration Act. This had made it harder for non-Whites to migrate to Britain. She also campaigned for the release of Nelson Mandela, and spoke out against racism in the workplace.
In London, Claudia Jones became a leader in the emerging Black equal rights movement. Post-war migration from the Caribbean had caused tensions in the City. Many West Indians suffered from prejudice in housing and employment. At the time, there was no legislation making it illegal to discriminate on the ground of colour.
In 1958, Claudia Jones founded the West Indian Gazette, the first newspaper printed in London for the Black community. It provided a forum for discussion of civil rights as well as reporting news that was overlooked by the mainstream media. Claudia worked as editor on the paper until her death, encouraging the most talented Black writers of the time to contribute to it.
One of Jones' best-known legacies is the annual Notting Hill Carnival. She helped launch the event as a response to the 1958 riots, when tensions had turned violent as racist mobs attacked local Black residents. Using the West Indian tradition of carnival, the event was intended to create closer relations between all local communities. The first carnival was held in January 1959 in a local hall.
In the early 1960s, despite failing health, Jones helped organise campaigns against the 1962 Immigration Act. This had made it harder for non-Whites to migrate to Britain. She also campaigned for the release of Nelson Mandela, and spoke out against racism in the workplace.
Claudia Jones died of a heart attack on Christmas Eve 1964, aged just 48. She was buried in Highgate cemetery next to the grave of Karl Marx.
- Charles Brown http://anthropology.usf.edu/women/leacock/leacock.htm
anthropology.usf.edu
"I grew up to be scornful of materialist consumerism; to value-even revere-natur... See More - David Faunt Le Roy For example, an associate of mine was at Free Mumia convention. A Black delegate stood up and moved that although all the white people participating had good intentions, they were all racist. They were racist and didn't know it, according to this Black comrade. So he proposed that all the white members of the coalition should have to attend his anti-racist counseling sessions. My comrade, who has been arrested countless times in civil rights actions, stood up and said that if he couldn't participate as an equal partner, he was going to get up and walk out. At this point some other Black comrades took my comrades side and got the Black Maoist who made the motion to relent.
Justin Fitzpatrick Even "Europe" as a continent if you dissect the history of it, there has been a history of Western Europe looking down upon "Slavic" countries. Northern Europeans had a view of Southern Romance Europe as "hot blooded latins", and England and France had a categorization of the Germanic peoples. Pretty much what I'm trying to say is that racialist categorization split Europe and when interests arise, they use terms like "Europe" and "white" which historically weren't all that descriptive. Not to mention English genocide of the Irish... plus, linguistically European languages aren't a separate group, it is rather, Indo-European languages which span from Persian all the way to Portuguese and Icelandic so yeah, I think the categorization of "Europe" is a very well fabricated and there are still vestiges of old racialist thinking regarding Slavs, and the like.... it's fucking stupid.
Andrew Mayton white supremacy is a distinct feature and apparatus of capitalism. David, don't underestimate its power to ingrain itself into the public subconscious- Andrew Mayton as much as i want to believe that white people who are marxists or do antiracist work are impervious to white supremacy's effects, i still can't bring myself to trust them after what I've experienced and what I've heard them say
Duncan Thomas Here's my two cents...about Europe being a "continent" or not..."objective" geographical distinctions are irrelevant either way. Human geography has always been structured by social constructs such as "civilisational boundaries" etc. Hence we can see that the idea of what (and where) "Europe" is has changed over time...
Regarding race and racism: yes, "scientific" theories of race, and hence "racism" as a distinct form of prejudice, are specifically European. Regarding every white person as being racist...
Here's the thing: as white people - of which I am one - we have to get over any kind of personal offence which we might take from this statement. Do I consider myself and many of my friends "racist"? Of course, I do not. But I do belong to a privileged racial category and I therefore benefit from my racial status - that is as true for white people if they are millionaires or homeless: there is always a RELATIVE privilege derived from having white skin vis-a-vis people in an otherwise similar social class, just as there is always a RELATIVE privilege in being male vis-a-vis women in an otherwise similar social class (or heterosexual...etc etc..)
Not confronting that, not understanding how I am privileged would make me de facto racist, as I would simple be reproducing the structures of my privilege. This does not have to be intentional or conscious - in fact, power is at its most effective when it's at its most insidious. Racist attitudes also express themselves in so so many ways which it is very hard to remove yourself from entirely...going to "ethnic" restaurants or listening to "world music", for example, can both be activities in which sedimented attitudes of racial supremacy intersect with capitalist logics of commodification.
When non-white people say "white supremacy/privilege" or "white racism" or "white people are racist" they are correct, because the vast majority of white people do nothing to challenge or engage with the STRUCTURAL aspects of their racial privilege. What white people normally consider to be "racism" (BNP, other far right parties etc) is in fact simply an "overt" manifestation of these "covert" structures, which define our existence socially, economically and politically. Even this condemnation of "overt" racism often functions as a way of middle class white liberals to distance themselves from racism, while ignoring the role it plays in their own privilege - in other words, the white bourgeois condemnation of racism actually often expresses a convergence of racial and class prejudice.
Our economy couldn't operate without ideas of race: our society only accepts the reality of brown people being basically enslaved to produce our commodities because this whole process of production is embedded within racist notions regarding "development", "backwardness" and other such hierarchies which mean that the "Third World" still exists to provide comforts for the "First". When we as white people contribute to that economy, we express our racist attitudes and perpetuate their operation.
The fact that many white people react in a defensive, even hostile, way to suggestions that they might be racist indicates nothing other than how deeply engrained such attitudes are and how unwilling we are to confront them.
I exempt myself from none of this. I am a white, heterosexual male and it is impossible that my identity and social attitudes are not at least partially shaped by these sources of privilege. We are all surrounded by ideas of race at every moment, and to believe that we, as white people who benefit from those ideas, are immune to their influence is either naive or disingenuous.
Rather than try to claim that I'm not racist, I prefer to acknowledge that my status as a white person benefiting from racial privilege, ipso facto, makes me racist. I try to understand and challenge that as much as I can, but I will never pretend that I am free of racial prejudice.- David Faunt Le Roy Andrew Mayton, I think it's sad that you find it hard to trust white socialists and other anti-racists. In doubting and fearing them, you are doing exactly what the ruling class wants you to do: cut yourself off and isolate from other proletarians. White radicals have died by the hundreds of thousands for anti-racist causes. If you don't trust someone who is an anti-racist or socialism, because they are white, I think that makes you the party with race prejudice as you are judging your reaction to that person purely on their skin color and not by their words or deeds. I wouldn't blame you for making racist judgements given your experiences, but they are racist judgments nonetheless. I think Black people are culturally conditioned to believe all white people are racist, and that sometimes charges of racism are used as a weapon in a contentious situation. For example, I worked in a hotel in the local resort for 6 years. I was a bellhop and worked at the front desk. Every single day, and sometimes up to 3-4 times a day, Black guests would 'pull the race card' (my co-workers term, many of whom were Black) on us. We would be accused, in person or on the phone, of treating a guest a certain way because, according to them, 'they were Black'. They would even accuse my Black co-workers of this, right to their face! I was stunned by this at first but eventually got used to it. To start with, I never treated any guest different from any other based on race or sex or any other qualification. My mother is not political, but she raised me to respect everyone and 'treat them as I want to be treated'. But after a while, I began to treat Black guests very differently than Whites and even other minorities. I let Black guests get away with things (cussing at staff, smoking cigarettes in rooms, lying about how many people were staying in the room, not checking out on time etc) that I didn't tolerate from any other guests. I had been accused of racism so many times and these situations were awkward and uncomfortable. I began to let Black guests do whatever they wanted to avoid such a confrontation, because probably %50 of the time I would be called a racist if I did something like call up to a room at 1pm (not knowing beforehand what color it's occupants were) and say "Ma'am, I'm sorry but check out time is 11am. We would be very grateful if you could come down to the desk out and check out as the maids need to get in that room so it will be clean when the next guest arrives at 4pm check out time". I can't tell how many times I've been called a racist for doing that. Those are basically my prepared lines when a guest is a late checkout, and I rattle them off after the guest picks up and say hello without knowing what race the guest belongs to. It was on the basis of this experience that, I have to admit, I developed the idea the most Black people are racist and believe that whites are racists. I began treated them differently because I don't like, in fact I dread, confrontational situations. My mother is a manager at a hotel. We often talk about her work day, and I can attest that under her management, a black employee has to fuck up about twice as bad to get fired or disciplined. Firstly, because my mom is a relaxed, unpretentious manager. Secondly because, like me, she is terrified of being accused of racism.
Duncan,
I can't pretend that I am NOT free of racial prejudice. I don't judge anyone by their skin color for any reason. I don't have a racist bone in my body. My first childhood friend was Black. I dated non-white people for years. Some of my heroes are Black. Revolutionary heroes, sports heroes. I don't discriminate against anyone because their skin is the color of my skin when I get very sun-tanned. Racism is not a natural reaction to people of another race, but rather an attitude and orientation towards 'the Other' manufactured by the ruling class to divide the working class. We are surrounded by institutionalized racism, sure. But I was raised to be anti-racist. In our home we were not permitted to use the N word even when singing a song. That got us a rap on the arm and a speech about the origins of that word. I have also immersed myself in radical, working- class, Marxist literature and friends.
White workers do not benefit from systemic racism. They are afforded extra privileges by the ruling class precisely because they would benefit the most by uniting with Black workers and acting as a proletarian class for itself. White people as whole are undoubtedly privileged. Racism is woven into the fabric of American capitalism. Slave labor, partially propped up by manufactured racist Ideology, drove the original accumulation of capital and fed the textile industry.vmThis doesn't mean white people 'benefit' from racism. It simply means they are being manipulated by the ruling class, who above all else fear black and white workers uniting against them in pursuit of their common class interests. - Duncan Thomas David Faunt Le Roy - I too have done everything I can to rid myself of racial prejudice and was also brought up in this manner. But I don't for one minute think that I am immune; I am certain that, many times, I have done or thought something "racist" - and also "sexist", "homophobic" and so on. We will never be able to say we are completely free from such prejudices, because it is of course impossible to prove the negative; moreover, our prejudices are most operational precisely when we DON'T notice them.
About racism benefiting white workers...I don't claim that they benefit in ABSOLUTE terms from racial prejudice - undoubtedly it functions overwhelmingly for the benefit of elite, a fact which the emergence of a non-white bourgeoisie does nothing to change. However, I maintain that all white people benefit from racial prejudice RELATIVE TO non-whites of a similar social class. For example: a middle or upper class white person will be subjected to police "stop and search" less than a middle or upper class black person (and MUCH less than a lower class black person); similarly, a white homeless person will suffer relatively less verbal and physical abuse than a non-white, possibly migrant homeless person.
The point is that race and class, along with other facts such as gender, intersect on every social level. A white person can be in a subaltern position in relation to their class, gender, sexuality or whatever, but they will always remain in a privileged position according to their race. The level of privilege derived from that racial status is always only relative to non-whites within the same social status, and of course increases relative to the class position of whites themselves.
I won't get beaten up by the EDL (English Defence League, for those non-Brits); I won't get shot in the street by the police; I won't be asked where I am "really" from; I won't be associated with media pictures of "criminal" youths who share my skin colour...
Why not? Because of my class status? Partly, but also because I'm white. That is white privilege, and all white people in relative terms benefit from that privilege.
Your argument about elites manipulating racial prejudice to divide black and white workers is true, valid and correct. It doesn't change the fact that white privilege exists though, nor does it excuse white people from challenging the basis of that privilege. In fact, would that not be a pre-requisite of global working class unity? - Andrew Mayton David, you're the exact reason i mistrust white marxists - despite proclaiming that you use marxism as a tool of scientific analysis of history, you still somehow equate the discomfort of being accused of racism (internalized or outright) with the experience/structural violence/mental anguish of racism. and you somehow find yourself in a position to accuse me, a person of color, of "racism against white supremacy," which you believe exists somehow. this is nothing new. sorry that your analysis isnt marxist, isnt intersectional, is colonial. sorry that you would rather pathologize me and tell ME how to respond to white supremacy instead of deconstructing white supremacy and your relationship to it.
- Andrew Mayton as far as your analysis of white workers not benefiting from white supremacy..... please. have you read any US history? anything having to do with asian labor? hispanic labor? how white labor always has maintained just enough material and political power to be able to push racialized labor out?
- Andrew Mayton David, obviously you're interested in antiracist work, and i don't think you're a racist. but you DO need to do some reading up on how to have better solidarity with your comrades of color.
- David Faunt Le Roy I didn't accuse you of structural and institutional racism. No one person is responsible for that; it is a product of American capitalism. I said you harbor irrational racist prejudice against all people, even anti-racists and Marxists, which isn't based on anything objective or concrete, but simply on the fact that they are white. You said that yourself.
White workers are accorded certain privileges. They are given these privileges to divide them from Black and other double - oppressed workers. The working class doesn't ultimately benefit from being divided. Not Whites. Not Blacks. We'd both be a heck of lot better of if we acted as *class* in pursuit of our common interests. You seem to want to make White workers who are also in vulnerable financial positions responsible for the fact that the ruling class has decided to try to divide them from their fellow proletarians, using racism to divide and rule.
Duncan, I am not a racist. Am I not an unconscious racist, or racist and unaware of it.
Nor am I particularly privileged. I have no home. No college. No car. I make minimum wage at two jobs. I've been thrown in jail for marijuana, once for 3 months. My neighborhood police harass me despite the fact I've been clean for 6 years. No insurance. $12000 in medical bills. I eat Ramen Noodles and Pop tarts for nutrition. I buy books by selling my old books to a little shop that gives me %20 of the cover price. I live in a neighborhood that it half White, half Black. So yes, poor whites aren't necessarily all that 'privileged'. 
Matt Kong Flash @David - I think it's absolutely amazing that under such personal challenges - indeed, I face comparable challenges - that you've read so much. Despite the distractions and other commitments necessary for survival, you've managed to educate yourself better than ANY college person I know of (including myself).- Duncan Thomas David, are you honestly saying that you are entirely free of all prejudice? If that is true, I think that you would be the only person ever, anywhere in the world. Don't take what I said as a personal attack. It's not. Like I said, I don't exempt mysel...See More
- Charles Brown David Faunt Le Roy For example, an associate of mine was at Free Mumia convention. A Black delegate stood up and moved that although all the white people participating had good intentions, they were all racist. They were racist and didn't know it, acco...See More
- Charles Brown I think the categorization of "Europe" is a very well fabricated and there are still vestiges of old racialist thinking regarding Slavs, and the like.... it's fucking stupid.///// Sure look at WWI and WWII the most people ever killed in wars. European...See More
- Charles Brown Use of the term "playing the race card" is itself white supremacist today. Protest against racism is not playing the race card. It is anti-racism. You see, in this Reaganite era a change we must make is in the media
defaming those anti-racists speakin...See More
- Charles Brown Here's my two cents...about Europe being a "continent" or not..."objective" geographical distinctions are irrelevant either way. Human geography has always been structured by social constructs such as "civilisational boundaries" etc. Hence we can see t...See More
- Justin Fitzpatrick I don't blame black/brown comrades for having mistrust towards whites. J. Sakai "Mythology of the White Proletariat", keepin it real here. I mean, shit, we enslaved them, stole their land, forced them out of their lands with imperialism, neoliberalism ...See More
- Charles Brown http://mediamatters.org/.../bill-oreillys.../200686
mediamatters.org
Fox News' Bill O'Reilly has led a sustained campaign to deny the existence of wh... See More - David Faunt Le Roy Charles, it is protesting racism when several times a day at my hotel Black people claim they are being discriminated against when we apply the same standard to everyone and most of our front desk staff, my co-workers, are Black? Enforcing a simple pol...See More
- David Faunt Le Roy Duncan, all I'm saying is that I can't think of one way the racism manifests in my life. If anything, my job experience has made me reverse - racist, ie going out of my way to please Black people out of fear of being charged with racism.
Justin, I ne...See More - Charles Brown Yes, David Faunt Le Roy, there are situations like that, however, in the vast majority of cases that is not the case. As a Marxist, you are responsible to understand your circumstance is an _extreme_ exception in our society. You are not some kind of ...See More
- Charles Brown I never stole anyone's land, enslaved anyone, and I have no part in neoliberalism except as an opponent of it. Why do I have to except responsibility for past exploitation and atrocity?/////// This is exactly what your average, white chauvinist person says today: " I didn't have any slaves or lynch anybody"
- David Faunt Le Roy Justin said 'we' did these things. No, the white ruling class did these things 300 years ago, when like % 80-90 of white colonials were indentured servants.
Charles, you say my Marxist anti-racist politics aren't enough to separate me for most Black p...See More - Duncan Thomas David - can you acknowledge that you have a privileged social status in the SPECIFIC* category of race, regardless of your subaltern class position? And secondly, can you acknowledge that this privileged racial status derives from previous/ongoing prac...See More
- Duncan Thomas David - regarding Obama...I'd say what it shows is more that, if able to enter the bourgeoisie, a black person can lose a degree of their "blackness" as a social signifier...Obama's election does very little, if anything at all, to show that US society...See More
- David Faunt Le Roy White people are privileged, of course. Yes, this status of the result of ongoing practices of oppression, woven into the fabric of American capitalism. I agree that I'm not responsible for these practices.
I don't agree that I, personally, or million...See More - David Faunt Le Roy So Obama can lose who 'blackness' upon entering the bourgeoisie, but I can't lose my whiteness even though I'm a minimum - wage proletarian?
The only significance that I attached in my comment above regarding Obama to these issues of race we are discussing is that it took a whole lot of us racist white people to elect him. And we racist whites were among the most disappointed when he shifted right after winning. - Charles Brown Charles, you say my Marxist anti-racist politics aren't enough to separate me for most Black people from the category of ordinary white person. This implies the average white person is racist, first of all.////// The average white person does have some...See More
- Andrew Mayton David your last comment shows you need to read up on intersectional theory. top down identity politics is insufficient and it's clearly what you're operating on
- David Faunt Le Roy I'm not denying white supremacy at all. It is all - pervasive. I'm denying that I am a white supremacist or a racist.
Indeed, I have always considered Black people to be among the flower of the American proletariat and absolutely critical to the success of any revolutionary perspective for the US. - Charles Brown I don't agree that I, personally, or millions of other truly poor white proletarians, derive much advantage from white privilege.////// This is false. Listen to the tapes by Tim Wise. Or look at the statistics on every category of quantity and quality...See More
- David Faunt Le Roy The one thing that has struck me throughout this whole thread is how angry my reaction to many of the comments was. If Black people insist on categorizing white Marxists, anti-racists and revolutionaries as racist, however 'benign' or 'unconscious', I ...See More
- Charles Brown http://www.huffingtonpost.com/tag/racial-wealth-gap/
www.huffingtonpost.com
From voter suppression laws being passed in the light of day in state houses aro... See More 
David Walters Not really wanting to jump in here too much...tends to get overly scholastic, are several important and not-important issues.
Unimportant. Call all white people racist is stooopid. Get serious. If they DOOOO something racist, then they should get call...See More- Charles Brown The vast majority of white people are influenced by white chauvinism. To deny that is itself the main form of white supremacy today. It is not at all stupid to say that, David Walters.
- David Faunt Le Roy What are you basing that assertion on, Charles? Can you provide one shred of empirical evidence to back it up or is it just a blatantly subjective opinion?
- Charles Brown Put it this way, Marxists who deny the major role of white chauvinism on white workers are doing the work of the bourgeoisie, helping to divide the working class by race. It is the duty of all Marxists to be _leading_ critics of the slightest racism in white workers.
- Charles Brown David Faunt Le Roy What are you basing that assertion on, Charles?///// Decades of studying what white workers think , say and do about race. How they vote, expresssions in surveys., personal observation, reading many studies and articles on it. Whit...See More
- Charles Brown Shred of evidence ? Are you kidding. I got mountains of evidence. You are in serious denial.
- David Faunt Le Roy Being leading critics of even minor racist tendencies of white workers is a heck of alot different than the sweeping claims you are making. If you can provide any empirical evidence, ie facts that transcend your own personal, subjective positions, beli...See More
- Charles Brown Evidence: hundreds of letters to the editor or comments in electronic media from the white 99% in the cities surrounding Black majority Detroit. Efforts to break the color barrier in the building trades union in the Detroit area. Reports from dozens ...See More
- David Faunt Le Roy Ok, please provide links with empirical demonstrating the white chauvinism of the 'overwhelming majority' of white people. I need to get acquainted with it because I've known hundreds maybe thousands of white people, have discussed politics with them, ...See More
- Charles Brown if we are constantly talking about our differences. ///// First of all , I don't constantly talk about. Take a look at the posts I've sent to this list. The majority are not about white supremacy. However, furthermore, it is not the responsibility of B...See More
- Charles Brown race, gender and sexuality//// well it should be gender, not sexuality, but otherwise that is completely correct. The big three are gender, race and class.
- David Faunt Le Roy If you are correct, the prospects for revolutionary change are pretty weak. If you are correct, then I'd think the proper course for Black people to adopt would be to support a independent Black Republic in Black majority areas since all of us white pe...See More
- Charles Brown . Satre saw the problem of "anti-racist racism," which i think is causing a problem here too. Look at - Satre's preface on Senghor's negritude movement.///////// There is no "anti-racist racism", so I don't know what Sartre is talking about. He might ...See More
- Charles Brown If you are correct, the prospects for revolutionary change are pretty weak.//// Well, we certainly are not on the verge of working class revolution in the US, but we took a giant step forward in the struggle to unite the working class ,. the 99%, when...See More
- Charles Brown To illustrate the dialectic of race and class, how white workers' racism ends up biting them in the ass, in 2010 , the white supremacist tea Republican backlash against Obama's election resulted in the Republicans taking over every branch of Michigan ...See More
- Charles Brown If you are correct, then I'd think the proper course for Black people to adopt would be to support a independent Black Republic in Black majority areas since all of us white people are irredeemably racist.//////// Nobody said white people are irredeema...See More
- Charles Brown since all of us white people are irredeemably racist./// This is a major error in your thinking. If white people were irredeemably racist, why would we be on them all the time to stop being racist ?
- Charles Brown Fortunately, I don't think that's the case at all. But I marvel that with your attitude towards white people being what it is that you haven't taken up a separatist, secessionist position.////// You're talking to a strawman. I never said white people are irredeemably racist. I said it is in their self-interest to rid themselves of racism, which implies they are not irredeemably racist. You are confused.
- David Faunt Le Roy Marx said in the Manifesto that it was the duty of communists to point out the *common interests* of the whole working class. I think this cornerstone of Marxism has gotten lost or has been discarded somewhere along the way by some Marxists.
Let me b...See More - Justin Fitzpatrick Sorry to burst your bubble but yes, all white people or white-passing people, do benefit from white supremacy in some way or aspect. It is true we need unity, together, to topple capitalism, but we must also respect the right of black and brown comrades to form their own separate spaces. Only issue is, why in the South where slavery was a part of the material reproduction of society, that the majority of land owning whites did not own slaves but overwhelmingly supported slavery? Hmm perhaps they benefited from the system. The Southern way of life was built on slavery so I don't really like the idealization and trivialization of the slave revolts and so on in your example. It is this exact kind of thing that Comrade Charles Brown is speaking of that white people unwittingly engage in. I will be the first to admit, I am not without my faults. I have internalized subliminal racism that I do not even take note of, so it is important that we understand that we need to be critical, take criticism and be self critical in order to have a sound communist movement. That said, the "Stalinist" black belt theory isn't just "stalinist", black nationalism isn't entirely "Stalin" although he did back it up in "On the National Question". If you want a more definite approach, go back to Marcus Garvey who came from Jamaica, a place built by slave rebellion. Race, racism, and racialist thinking all come from a common economic base, and we must self-criticize to combat it, and take criticism from our comrades.
- David Faunt Le Roy Justin, it's good that you've managed to recognize your unconscious racism. Please let me know how you discovered it, it being 'subliminal' and you having never 'taken note of it'. Your explanation of how that works is something I'm eagerly awaiting.
Get real. You're either racist or your not.
I didn't say Black Nationalism, did I? I said black - belt theory and the demand for an independent Black Republic in the South, which was put forward by the Stalinists but never embraced by the Black community as a demand.
You need to brush up on your pre-Civil War and Civil War history. The plantation aristocracy took great pains to create a divide between poor whites and slaves, and servile insurrection supported by poor whites was the aristocrats worst nightmare. Again, poor whites benefit from being a step up from slaves in the political-economic hierarchy, but not nearly as much as they would have had they made common cause with the slaves. This idea isn't that hard to grasp. Ruling classes always seek to create stratification with the oppressed masses. Divide and rule, not that hard. And your assertion that poor whites supported slavery is not completely correct. Missouri, Kentucky, Maryland and Delaware didn't secede. The 63 Western counties of Virginia seceded from Virginia when Virginia seceded from the Union. East Tennessee, Western Carolinas, Northern Gulf States, Ozark region of Arkansas- all had staunch Unionist majorities or significant minorities. Already by 1862, the Confederacy had a massive problem keeping it's unit up to full strength. Poor southern whites (who made up the bulk of the Southern Armies, and who fought for a variety of motives) began to desert in massive numbers, calling the conflict 'a rich man's war and poor man's fight' and refused to die 'for a rich man's slave'. Deserters all over the South took to the woods and formed armed gangs which fought the Confederate authorities that came to press them back into service. By 1863, desertion and disillusionment with 'the Cause', despite tactical Confederate victories in the field, was crippling the Southern war effort. - Charles Brown http://occupywallstreet.net/.../explaining-white...
occupywallstreet.net
I came from the kind of Poor that people don't want to believe still exists in this country. - Charles Brown David Faunt Le Roy I'm am familiar with the Stalinist 'black belt' theory.////// So, the Stalinists had the theory before you did.
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